Person on both sides of Atlantic on same day

[J Maki USA]

I am new to Suku Forum but have been researching my Finnish relatives for the past five years. Now I am writing the story of my grandparents immigration to the USA. But I have a situation that I am unable to resolve and would greatly appreciate your input.


Ship records for my grandmother Aurora Harju show her arriving in Quebec, Canada on 2 Aug 1907 while Kurikka and Kauhajoki Moving Records report her as departing Kurikka on 3 Aug 1907 and arriving in Kauhajoki in 4 Aug 1907.


The ship manifest and US/Canada Border Crossing document shows details that specifically identify her - rather than another Finnish woman with the same name.


How do I decide which side of the Atlantic Ocean she was really on? Could the church records be wrong? I have documentation for both sides.

[Heikki Särkkä]

If the date of arrival in Canada is correct, then the church records dates are both wrong. However, thinking of the circumstances in both cases with a long line of arrivals in the port waiting to be recorded and one priest writing a certificate for a would-be emigrant from Finland, where would a mistake be more likely to occur, assuming that the woman was correctly identified?

[Jouni Kaleva]

In Finland we use a bit different way of reading dates.
E.g.: 8.3.1907 would be 8th of March (instead of American 3rd of Aug)

Would that kind of misinterpretation be possible in the case?

If a person is travelling from Kurikka to Canada, there would be no sense in recording her arriving in Kauhajoki (or anywhere else in Finland) on the second day of her journey. So which is the record showing that? Could you provide us with the document in question, please (or a link to such)?

[Jouni Kaleva]

I found the church records.
Sofia Aurora Kaisantr. (Kaisa´s daughter) Harju (also stepfathers family name Weräys) received in Kurikka parish a certificate on 3.Aug 1907 to move from Kurikka to Kauhajoki (she evidently returned to her mother and stepfather from Kurikka, where she had stayed since 1905) and this has been recorded in Kauhajoki parish as arrival on 4. Aug. 1907.

The communion book shows that she took the communion on 18. Sept. 1910, so at that time she has definitely been in Kauhajoki. The last column states "12/1 1911 Am tod" which may be a bit ambiguous, but most probably means that she has received a certificate to travel to America on 12. Jan 1911.

https://www.digiarkisto.org/sshy/sivut/jasenille/paikat.php?bid=33342&pnum=612 (the link opens only for members - a small fee is required)

The question is: did she travel back and forth, once in 1907 and once in 1911???

[Jouni Kaleva]

Aurora shows in the communion book in Kurikka with a note "Am 27/6 07"
which should mean that she left for America on 27. June 1907. (or perhaps it means, that she returned from America on that date).

Then she received the moving document for Kauhajoki "3/8 07" (3.Aug. 1907)

https://www.digiarkisto.org/sshy/sivut/jasenille/paikat.php?bid=46318&pnum=162

So maybe she travelled back and forth?

[J Maki USA]

In Finland we use a bit different way of reading dates.
E.g.: 8.3.1907 would be 8th of March (instead of American 3rd of Aug)

Would that kind of misinterpretation be possible in the case? I
If a person is travelling from Kurikka to Canada, there would be no sense in recording her arriving in Kauhajoki (or anywhere else in Finland) on the second day of her journey. So which is the record showing that? Could you provide us with the document in question, please (or a link to such)?


Thank you for your responses and I will try to provide more complete information. Please bear in mind that I am new to Suku Forum and be patient with me as I try to answer and give more details.


I am aware of difference in date presentation and believe I have taken that into account properly.


I am a member of the Finnish Family History Association and have a Word document with a detailed explanation, description of the Finnish church records I used as sources, and links to the sukuhistoria records. I do not know if I am allowed to include the links to the sukuhistoria records. So I will link the document but not includes the sukuhistoria. Perhaps you are able to tell me if that is allowed.


I have uploaded the attachment and nowwill answer your other questions on Suku Forum. Thak you so much for offering to help!

[J Maki USA]

I researched further and believe it is ok to show the links. So here is the same documents but with the links.

[Jouni Kaleva]

Hello

Thank you for the specific information, including the proper links.

(it is indeed, allowed to share links here, the links may not open, if the person opening them does not possess the membership PIN etc)

This is a fascinating problem: Aurora on both sides of the Atlantic at the same time!

Another striking fact is that she married her stepbrother. That is somewhat exceptional. Yesterday, I suspected such a marriage, when I saw the records indicating that. But now I have to believe my eyes :)

I try to see, if I can find anything to explain the riddle, in a few days, I hope.

[Jouni Kaleva]

What about a simple explanation:

The moving document in Aug. 1907 from Kurikka parish to Kauhajoki parish was obtained by somebody else! For instance, her mother or husband-to-be? At the time Aurora was already in Canada, and the family in Finland had a motive to let it be known, that Aurora no more was staying in Kurikka. So it was a technical arrangement to move the recorded home parish from Kurikka to Kauhajoki.

Perhaps the young couple already had their marriage plans made, and they thought that it would be easier - when the time comes - to obtain the relevant release ("free for marriage") from the same parish (=Kauhajoki parish). Taking into account their exceptional position, being step siblings.

[J Maki USA]

Thank you for your comments. So, you are saying that, perhaps, someone else (her mother, for example) could have given the information to the parish priests. Since the information was recorded in the records of the churches in Kauhajoki and the Kurikka, it would seem it would have to be given at both places. It does seem possible that this could have happened.

But I wonder why it would be done. What do you mean by "their exceptional position, being step siblings?" As far as I can tell, they are not biologically related but are born of two different families who are joined by marriage. Of course, I cannot be certain of this because the father is not named in the church records.

Aurora's father is not shown in the birth record. Her mother Kaisa married the father (Antti Kustaa) of Aurora's husband (Albinus) three years after Antti Kustaa's first wife (Maija Liisa) died. Maija Liisa is the mother of Albinus. I have not figured out any way to determine the father of Aurora.

I have a SECOND mystery. The immigration to America in 1905 of Aurora's husband Albinus with his sister-in-law and nephew is clearly documented with Finnish passport and ship records.But then, an entry appears that Albinus going with his parents to Kauhajoki on 25 Feb 1907 in the Kurikka, Communion Book, AP III, Image 424,Plosila, Kiertolaisia and in the Kauhajoki and the Kurikka Moving Records. However, so far, I have not been able to find ship records for him returning to Finland between 1905 and 1907 or returning to the USA in 1907 or later.

I have attached a file with the detailed description and the links to the church records. If you can take the time to look at this mystery, I would greatly appreciate any comments or suggestions you have.

[Jouni Kaleva]

Thank you for your comments. So, you are saying that, perhaps, someone else (her mother, for example) could have given the information to the parish priests. Since the information was recorded in the records of the churches in Kauhajoki and the Kurikka, it would seem it would have to be given at both places. It does seem possible that this could have happened.

But I wonder why it would be done. What do you mean by "their exceptional position, being step siblings?" As far as I can tell, they are not biologically related but are born of two different families who are joined by marriage. Of course, I cannot be certain of this because the father is not named in the church records.


Hi

When a person wanted to move from one parish to another, he/she had to obtain a "moving certificate" from the parish office. This certificate contained a lot of information: received vaccination (against small pox), any physical handicaps, ability to read and write and knowledge of the cathecism, participation in communions, any hindrance to future marriage, general reputation. acceptability for military service.

I feel, that when you made the request, it would take days or weeks for the reverend to provide the certificate and file it correctly.

The law said, you would have to present the certificate in the recipient parish within one month.

So, Aurora may have requested the certificate just before she left for America. By the time it was completed, she already was in Canada. So it may have been her mother who fetched the paper from Kurikka and the following day presented it in Kauhajoki parish office.

The motive for all this would have been, that Aurora knew, that she was planning never to return to Kurikka (but perhaps to Kauhajoki, where her family nowadays lived).

I just now learned from you, that Albinus had already been in Canada for some time. So it was easy for Aurora to go to him.

By"exceptional position" I only meant that when the banns were announced, then the priest would have to examine, if they were (biologically) too close relatives. As they appeared, at the first sight, to be step siblings, it would have taken some effort to clear the circumstance. In this case, the banns were announced two years post festum, which seems quite a rigid arrangement.

[Jouni Kaleva]

I have a SECOND mystery. The immigration to America in 1905 of Aurora's husband Albinus with his sister-in-law and nephew is clearly documented with Finnish passport and ship records.But then, an entry appears that Albinus going with his parents to Kauhajoki on 25 Feb 1907 in the Kurikka, Communion Book, AP III, Image 424,Plosila, Kiertolaisia and in the Kauhajoki and the Kurikka Moving Records. However, so far, I have not been able to find ship records for him returning to Finland between 1905 and 1907 or returning to the USA in 1907 or later.[/FONT]

I have attached a file with the detailed description and the links to the church records. If you can take the time to look at this mystery, I would greatly appreciate any comments or suggestions you have.

Actually, there is no mystery about Albinus.
He went to America in 1905 and did not return.

The registration about moving from Kurikka to Kauhajoki in 1907, along with his parents (e.i. father and stepmother) is only technical in nature.

It has been duely noted in both parishes (in the communion book remarks) that he stays (temporarily) in America. Yet, at the same time, any citizen had to be registered somewhere even though it was known, that the person was (temporarily) absent. So he was registered as moving (on paper only) along with his parents in the same process with his parents' registration.

[J Maki USA]

A million thanks to you for solving the two mysteries about my grandparents. Now I understand and can go ahead confidently with the facts when writing the story of their immigration to America.


Kiitos paljon!