Directional Help Hyrsylä Orthodox Records

[kononoff]

I am hoping someone might be able to help me understand a problem I am having.

Hyrsylä was part of the Salmi parish in the 1800's yet I cannot seem to find any (many) entries from Hyrsylä in the registers of Salmi on either the HisKi or karjalatk sites, though both have the Salmi orthodox registers. The FFHA does not seem to have the Salmi registers.

I received a family history that showed very specific dates of birth and marriage and death for family members from Hyrsylä in the 1840's onward but cannot seem to find where these records are?

Does anyone have any though where they might be and under whose parish this records would be covered?

Thanks.

[Kyösti Thum]

http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?atun=242282.KA (http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?atun=242282.KA)
Here you see how they write Hyrsylä:
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3972484 (http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3972484)
You may get for reading metrikas to 1880 not to younger.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?sartun=108637.KA (http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?sartun=108637.KA)

In HISKI there are also Salmi Ortodokses.
http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski/3lopva?fi+1048+kastetut (http://hiski.genealogia.fi/hiski/3lopva?fi+1048+kastetut)
Still there may be found cencuses
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=360956 (http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=360956)
From these censuses you have to search Hyrsylä from Salmi
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?atun=273155.KA (http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?atun=273155.KA)

From KATIHA
http://www.karjalatk.fi/katiha/index.php (http://www.karjalatk.fi/katiha/index.php)
take Salmi ort->valituista->seuraava sivu->kaikista->seuraava sivu->(kylä/talo)Hyrsylä->(tuloksia enintäin) 250 or1000->enter

You may find Hyrsylä!
KT

[kononoff]

Hi KT,

Thanks for all the leads. I have looked over the HisKi and also the Katiha but could find nothing. In both HisKi and Kaitiha (karalajatk) there are some Hyrsylä entries but not enough to cover the amount of poeple living in the area during that time.

I have heard that the church in Annantehdas may have done some of the work in this parish but don't know where those records are.

I went and looked over the metrika books for Salmi but don't think I could find Hrysylä in the entries, I think! :oo:

Here are some entries that I was given -

Pavel Jegorov born Dec 15, 1856
Irinia Jegorova born May 18, 1860
Feodor Jegorov born Oct 2, 1862

these children were all born to Jegor Kononov & Jevdokia Mihailova in Hyrsylä.

If anyone can identify them in the metrikat or elsewhere I would be very appreciative!

Many thanks, Cary

[Bertarido]

Hi KT,

Thanks for all the leads. I have looked over the HisKi and also the Katiha but could find nothing. In both HisKi and Kaitiha (karalajatk) there are some Hyrsylä entries but not enough to cover the amount of poeple living in the area during that time.

I have heard that the church in Annantehdas may have done some of the work in this parish but don't know where those records are.

I went and looked over the metrika books for Salmi but don't think I could find Hrysylä in the entries, I think! :oo:

Here are some entries that I was given -

Pavel Jegorov born Dec 15, 1856
Irinia Jegorova born May 18, 1860
Feodor Jegorov born Oct 2, 1862

these children were all born to Jegor Kononov & Jevdokia Mihailova in Hyrsylä.

If anyone can identify them in the metrikat or elsewhere I would be very appreciative!

Many thanks, Cary

They can be found quite easily in Katiha in the Salmi orthodox registers. Did you enter Kononov under 'patronyymi'? It's not under 'sukunimi'.

If you still can't find them, here's the 1865 entry in the confessional list (left-hand side, family no. 56, Jegor Kononov is no. 204):
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3973163

[kononoff]

I should have been more clear, I can find the family in the Rippi Kirjat in the Katiha and traced them in the Rippi Kirjat quite easily, so you are right they are there.

What I am trying to find specifically is the birth entries, someone was able to find specific birth dates for these people so there must be some sort of birth registers that show these entries but I can't seem to find these.

Many thanks!

[Kyösti Thum]

http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3973284 (http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3973284)
Here you find family number 56 and members number 207-209 and 234-235.
Here are Jegor and his father, Jevdogia and children Pavel, Irina and Feodor.

http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=300951 (http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=300951)
I thik here is your Konon on Hyrsylä 10


From KATIHA you find also those children Pavel from Rippik 1858 side 235B Irina and Fjodor from Rippik 1865 side 10A

You may find bithdays from Metrikka. There are first births then veddings and deaths.
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?sartun=108637.KA (http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?sartun=108637.KA)
Maybe its difficult.

KT

[kononoff]

Hi KT,

I have found the family in the Rippi Kirjat but thank you for showing me the page in the original book to see how the names are written in Russian...

I have went through the Metrikat for 1862 in October and tried to find Feodor's birth but am not sure. The closest entry I could find was this one :

http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3978860

entry number 116

The mother's name appears to be at the end of one of the paragraphs, but for some reason I think this is a female but am not sure. The Russian part is hard to figure out.

I am hoping to find the entry for Feodor in October 1862 as then it will at least prove where the information I received came from!

Many thanks, Ted

[Bertarido]

For some reason Hyrsylä appears to have been neglected with regard to the metrical books, Hiski and Katiha have a surprisingly small number of records, and I would suspect that they accurately reflect what's in the actual books. Maybe the people over at Raja-Karjala Foorumi have more information:
http://salmi.phpbb-host.com/phpbb/index.php

It is interesting to note that the few mentions of Hyrsylä in the metrical books of Suojärvi indicate some confusion as to which pogost Hyrsylä actually belonged to: most refer to the correct pogost (i.e., Salmi), but occasionally reference is made to Hyrsylä village in the Tulemajärvi pogost in the Olonets province. I don't have maps of the Tulemajärvi pogost at my disposal right now so I can't really say whether there is also a Hyrsylä village in Tulemajärvi.

Be it as it may, there's a chance that the metrical books of Tulemajärvi may contain people from Hyrsylä, but the problem is that these books are in Petrozavodsk... (Vyborg? St. Petersburg?)

[Bertarido]

Hi KT,

I have found the family in the Rippi Kirjat but thank you for showing me the page in the original book to see how the names are written in Russian...

I have went through the Metrikat for 1862 in October and tried to find Feodor's birth but am not sure. The closest entry I could find was this one :

http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=3978860

entry number 116

The mother's name appears to be at the end of one of the paragraphs, but for some reason I think this is a female but am not sure. The Russian part is hard to figure out.

I am hoping to find the entry for Feodor in October 1862 as then it will at least prove where the information I received came from!

Many thanks, Ted


That's not it, that's Anastasia born to Vasili Mihailov in Ala-Uuksu village.

[kononoff]

For some reason Hyrsylä appears to have been neglected with regard to the metrical books, Hiski and Katiha have a surprisingly small number of records, and I would suspect that they accurately reflect what's in the actual books. Maybe the people over at Raja-Karjala Foorumi have more information:
http://salmi.phpbb-host.com/phpbb/index.php

It is interesting to note that the few mentions of Hyrsylä in the metrical books of Suojärvi indicate some confusion as to which pogost Hyrsylä actually belonged to: most refer to the correct pogost (i.e., Salmi), but occasionally reference is made to Hyrsylä village in the Tulemajärvi pogost in the Olonets province. I don't have maps of the Tulemajärvi pogost at my disposal right now so I can't really say whether there is also a Hyrsylä village in Tulemajärvi.

Be it as it may, there's a chance that the metrical books of Tulemajärvi may contain people from Hyrsylä, but the problem is that these books are in Petrozavodsk... (Vyborg? St. Petersburg?)

Yes, exactly, there seems to be a lack of Hyrsylä entries in both the Salmi (ort) and the Suojärvi (ort) records given the population of the area. These records must have been recorded elsewhere. I tend to agree that what is in the databases is probably what is written in the Metrika for those areas.

There are two other things to note - 1) I read somewhere on the internet that there may have been a connection between the church is Veskelys and Hyrsylä. Evidently the roads between Veskelys and Hyrsylä were better than between Hyrsylä and areas in Salmi county, so maybe the Hyrsylä records are there but have no idea where would one find those.

2) I have also been told that after Hyrsylä joined the Suojärvi county that the church in Annantehdas was in charge of the church in Hyrsylä.

I do have some other information that adds more mystery to where these records would be located.

I do have an old family paper from the Suomen Ortodoksinen Rkkipiispakunta Karjalan Hiippakunta dated 1949 that has headline "Papintodistus Annantehtaan kreikkalaiskatolisesta seurakunnasta perintöasioita varten", that shows some family births. It shows born to Feodor Jegorov (Jegorinpk.) and Matrona Paavalov (Paavalintr.) in Hyrsylä a daughter Anna born 10/2/1888 and also a daughter Tatjana born 4/11/1891.

What is odd is that searching either the Hiski and Katiha and looking at Salmi (ort), Suojärvi (ort) and Annantehdas (ort) neither of these birth records show up even thought they are in the period covered by the records of those churches, but the document I have shows the records exist somewhere.

The other family paper I have was given to me by a distant family member so the author of the paper is unknown so I have no idea where they were able to find all the early Hyrsylä records that they show in the document.

This is all very odd, but thank you for your thoughts on the matter. Maybe I need to contact the church offices to see where these records are today?

[marie]

Voi kun ymmärtäisin Englantia paremmin, sukuni on lähtöisin juuri noilta paikoilta, Ylä-Uuksu Ivan beroga, ja hänen isä ja Äiti Vasili Beroga/Berega ja Paraskeva Maljanen, Vasilin isä ja äiti Jekaterina ja Kuisma/Kosma kiriloff
ja mummini Jekaterina Suojärvi Annantehds hänen isä ja Äiti Ivan Mihailov Vetrov Jelena Petrova, juuri olin etsimässä vuoden 1812-1820 välistä aikaa joka tuntuu kadonneen, eli Kreivittären palvelija Stefan Petrov Vetrov ja Paraskovja Petrov menivät 1812 naimisiin, mutta en ole löytänyt heidän lapsia,
varmuudella, arvailua: Jevdokia Stefanova saanut lapsen Jefimiä 1851 ja Aleksandra 1888, eli etsin olisiko heillä vielä lapsi Mihail Stefanov
s. 1846

[Bertarido]

Yes, exactly, there seems to be a lack of Hyrsylä entries in both the Salmi (ort) and the Suojärvi (ort) records given the population of the area. These records must have been recorded elsewhere. I tend to agree that what is in the databases is probably what is written in the Metrika for those areas.

There are two other things to note - 1) I read somewhere on the internet that there may have been a connection between the church is Veskelys and Hyrsylä. Evidently the roads between Veskelys and Hyrsylä were better than between Hyrsylä and areas in Salmi county, so maybe the Hyrsylä records are there but have no idea where would one find those.

2) I have also been told that after Hyrsylä joined the Suojärvi county that the church in Annantehdas was in charge of the church in Hyrsylä.

I do have some other information that adds more mystery to where these records would be located.

I do have an old family paper from the Suomen Ortodoksinen Rkkipiispakunta Karjalan Hiippakunta dated 1949 that has headline "Papintodistus Annantehtaan kreikkalaiskatolisesta seurakunnasta perintöasioita varten", that shows some family births. It shows born to Feodor Jegorov (Jegorinpk.) and Matrona Paavalov (Paavalintr.) in Hyrsylä a daughter Anna born 10/2/1888 and also a daughter Tatjana born 4/11/1891.

What is odd is that searching either the Hiski and Katiha and looking at Salmi (ort), Suojärvi (ort) and Annantehdas (ort) neither of these birth records show up even thought they are in the period covered by the records of those churches, but the document I have shows the records exist somewhere.

The other family paper I have was given to me by a distant family member so the author of the paper is unknown so I have no idea where they were able to find all the early Hyrsylä records that they show in the document.


My guess is that the dates appear in the 'pääkirja' (slightly modernized versions of confessional lists) starting from the 1910s/1920s, which unfortunately are not available online (you will be able to browse them on a computer in the branches of the National Archive). Where *they* got the dates from, is another matter.

The death of Matrona Pavlova is, however, recorded in Suojärvi.

[/quote]
This is all very odd, but thank you for your thoughts on the matter. Maybe I need to contact the church offices to see where these records are today?[/quote]

All church records from the formerly Finnish parishes are in the Mikkeli regional archive (Salmi, Suojärvi, Annantehdas), but I doubt they can help you with the Russian parishes.

[kononoff]

For some reason Hyrsylä appears to have been neglected with regard to the metrical books, Hiski and Katiha have a surprisingly small number of records, and I would suspect that they accurately reflect what's in the actual books.

It is interesting to note that the few mentions of Hyrsylä in the metrical books of Suojärvi indicate some confusion as to which pogost Hyrsylä actually belonged to: most refer to the correct pogost (i.e., Salmi), but occasionally reference is made to Hyrsylä village in the Tulemajärvi pogost in the Olonets province. I don't have maps of the Tulemajärvi pogost at my disposal right now so I can't really say whether there is also a Hyrsylä village in Tulemajärvi.

Be it as it may, there's a chance that the metrical books of Tulemajärvi may contain people from Hyrsylä, but the problem is that these books are in Petrozavodsk... (Vyborg? St. Petersburg?)

Hi, I have been able to clear this up, in that most of the entries for Hyrsylä are in the Veskelys books, it seems that church was much easier access to the parish until the early 1920's when the border closed and the people of the area had to use the Annantehdas church.

But I do have a question, you mentioned that there are entries in the metrical books that mention Hyrsylä as part of the Tulmejärvi pogost? Are you refering to entries in the Hiski / Kaitha or do you mean actual entries in the metrical books, as here, http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?sartun=108637.KA (http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?sartun=108637.KA) Thanks for the clarification.

[Bertarido]

But I do have a question, you mentioned that there are entries in the metrical books that mention Hyrsylä as part of the Tulmejärvi pogost? Are you refering to entries in the Hiski / Kaitha or do you mean actual entries in the metrical books, as here, http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?sartun=108637.KA (http://digi.narc.fi/digi/dosearch.ka?sartun=108637.KA) Thanks for the clarification.

The entries are in the Suojärvi metrical books detailing where the bride and the groom or the godparent come from. In the 19th century records I've come across the following cases, here from the transcribed metrical books published by Suojärven pitäjäseura. I checked a few against original records, however not all of them.

births:
16.11.1837

marriages:
12.2.1821
9.10.1839
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=4035573
23.1.1844
6.10.1847
http://digi.narc.fi/digi/view.ka?kuid=8015990

probably a mistake: Hyrsylä from Ilomantsi pogost
3.10.1851


They may all well be mistakes on the part of the priest.